Monday, July 20, 2009

Hug Your Children Close!

As a parent, I can not imagine what Tori's parents are going through, it must be their worst nightmare. So hug your children close.

CTV has lots of video today.

What they do not have is the answer to one question. WHY?

Why would anyone do this to a baby? How sick must these people be to have killed a little 8 year old girl. It wasn't an accident, it was premeditated, cold blooded murder. Have you told you kids how much you love them today?

Dare you imagine what she went through? Can you let your mind even think about her panic and fear, or do you block the thoughts of what happened to her? What happened to her? Was she raped? Can you put yourself in her little shoes and feel her pain?

No parent should outlive their child, but to have your child taken from you by such sick people, such scum, is unimaginable.

Tori did nothing to deserve what happened to her. May she now rest in peace. May her parents and family gain some relief from her body being found.

May the scum who killed her never rest in peace, may their eternal souls burn in hell for what they did. Look how they hide their faces. Now, after they have murdered a little 8 year old girl and have been caught, now, they feel shame? May the jury sentence them to life, for the life that they took.

Remember to hug your kids close and tell them how much you love them. Godspeed Tori.


maryT said...

When suing for wrongful death, the future earnings of said victim is taken into account, to set damages.
In cases like this, the killers should be sentenced, with no parole, for the probable lifespan of the victim. Tori was 8, could live to 80, so 72 yrs should be their sentence.
Will we ever know WHY.
As for covering his face, I don't know if I want to see that animals face, to remember forever.

Bec said...

I'm with, Mary on every statement but I also hope and pray that there is enough evidence to convict them.
There are some eerie similarities to Bernardo/Homolka in the sense of how it started and ended. What happened in the middle I'm afraid, may not be for the faint of heart. The whole thing is such a sad, pointless event but I'm relieved that she has been returned home to her family.

East of Eden said...

I just know that SQ is going to jump all over me for this but...I believe that anybody who harms a child should be shot. I don't care what the person's reasons or history are...nobody should harm a child.

Okay, bleeding hearts - have at it. I am tolerant on most fronts but where a child is concerned, I have no tolerance whatsoever. I also extend that intolerance to those who harm disabled or challenged people.

Gayle said...

Mary, if they are convicted they will get life in prison. While they will be eligible to apply for parole in no less than 25 years, there is no guarantee they will get it. Many criminals never get parole and die in prison.

East: how do you describe "harming" a child? What is your standard? Does it include denying them proper medical care? A home? Food? Education? Exposing them to sexual exploitation?

There are many ways to harm a child. What happened to poor Tori is the kind of thing that is rare. What happens to the thousands of children on our streets every day is not.

Just once I would love it the self righteous amongst you would lift a finger and start calling for supports for the children who live on our streets. It would be a refreshing change. But of course it would mean calling for government interference, and that conflicts with your ideology, so...

jad said...

This brings back memories of the Moors Murders in the UK inthe 60s. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley kidnapped, abused and tortured a number of childern before being caught. Both were given 25 year sentences, but Brady has since been declared criminally insane and is still in prison. When Hindley was eligible for parole, the then Home Secretary increased her life sentence. This was appealed, but she died of a heart attack before the sentence could be reversed.

My heart goes out to the Stafford family who must have been devastated by this senseless act. The only good part of this sad news is that at least they can now have some kind of closure.

As for the polemic by Gayle on child poverty .... words fail me. Just for once it would be nice if she could express a genuine emotion like sympathy for the family instead of turning this tragedy into a mini-lecture to conservatives.

What happened to poor Tori is the kind of thing that is rare
So apparently is any kind of normal human response from Gayle.

PS Please don't bother responding, as I have no intention of wasting any more of my time on you.

East of Eden said...

Actually, Gayle, many of my community actually work with abused children - we don't cry out for governments to do the work that we, as human beings, should do. As for myself - I worked, as you know, with suicidal males for over 30 years before moving on from it. Now, I paint rooms for seniors and shut-ins as well as take them on errands and other little things that make their days a little brighter. I, like most of my ilk, do not expect the government to do the jobs that we, as a human community, should be doing.

As for defining "harm" - please, Gayle, try to avoid being provocative. If you don't know what I was meaning, then don't even bother to ask because you'll never get it.

Now, you say you are paid to work with troubled youth but what do you and your kind actually do from the heart and not for money?

Southern Quebec said...

East of Eden:

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.

Mahatma Gandhi

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Mahatma Gandhi

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi

liberal supporter said...

I believe that anybody who harms a child should be shot. I don't care what the person's reasons or history are...nobody should harm a child.
EofE, the problem with your position is that mistakes happen. Were you prepared to have the presumed killers shot, even if no body was ever found? The only good thing about finding Tori's remains is that the case is much more likely to result in a conviction.

Okay, bleeding hearts - have at it. I am tolerant on most fronts but where a child is concerned, I have no tolerance whatsoever. I also extend that intolerance to those who harm disabled or challenged people.
What's with the "Okay bleeding hearts" nonsense? Do you always try to take emotionally charged situations as yet another opportunity for political bashing?

Does anyone here seriously believe that "lefties" are somehow less horrified by this crime?

Southern Quebec said...

"I believe that anybody who harms a child should be shot."

Would cause a bit of a problem over at the Catholic diocese, no?

East of Eden said...

"Would cause a bit of a problem over at the Catholic diocese, no?"

Those folks fall into the same class - my feeling is the same for them. I don't care who harms a child - he or she should be shot. That's how I feel and I do not apologize for it.

LS - Okay, I see that you are going to play silly buggers with me - how about we shoot anybody who is found, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to have harmed a child.

East of Eden said...

Jad - Gayle's diatribes are usually idiotic. It is right-wingers who actually DO something and the left-wingers who expect the government to do what they, as human beings, should do.

Right-wing: action.
Left-wing: words.

Kind of makes me think of the old Biblical instruction re: faith without deed.

Gayle said...

Oh dear lord. Why do you start crying about an attack on the conservatives whenever I point out that there are children on our streets, today, right now, who are homeless, drug addicted and sexually exploited? It is such a cop out to demand I prove that I am doing something for them. I already know what the problem is because I already work with them.

Where exactly do you think child prostitutes come from? Are you not aware that children as young as 8 are being sold as child prostitutes in our country?

Why, exactly, do you think we have child welfare legislation in this country? Could it be because our society recognizes (and has recognized for a very long time) that the kind of supports required must come from an organization with the resources and power to make changes? Canada, like every other first, second and many third world countries, recognized long ago that the government is the only organization that can properly address the needs of these children. The problem is that we, the taxpayers, just do not care enough to make sure it is being done properly.

So spare me your faux outrage Jad. It is YOU who is pathetic and who does not care about children in need. You would rather whine about what you suggest is my lack of sympathy for Tori's parents (which is a total lie, but when has that ever stopped you), and yet refuse to acknowledge the crisis we have on our streets because to do so would require that you criticize conservatives - and apparently no child is ever going to be needy enough for you to do that. You disgust me - you really do.

And East - apparently you missed my point. I am trying to point out that children are harmed every day, and that as taxpayers and voters WE are the ones responsible to address that harm.

Now you can tell me, again, about all the great work you did with your church once upon a time, but that does not absolve you from failing to hold your governments responsible for their failures here.

Southern Quebec said...

"And East - apparently you missed my point. "

East tends to see things in black and white. Touch a child = die.
Harm a disabled or challenged person = die.

How about seniors?

East of Eden said...

Gayle - I am all to aware that children are harmed in all sorts of ways and it is a total disgrace.

I do not hold any government responsible for child abuse - we do have laws but...are they always applied as they should? I doubt it.

Child abuse is lower than low and I cannot fathom how anybody could harm a child in any way.

We, as a community of humans, must pitch in and do something to clean up the mess we now have and to prevent it from growing in the future. I and people like me try out best but there is only so much we can do.

No government can be efficient and effective - we need more actual human beings actually being hands-on and showing how much we care about the people around us. I do not believe that any government can do a good job of this.

Child prostitution is sick, sick, sick. I cannot speak with first-hand knowledge so I cannot speak to any sort of remedy but I am sure that there are volunteers out there who could but no government would listen to them, anyway.

I'll give you credit for a few things: what you do for a living at least makes an attempt to put a dent in the problem. Now, if only we could build an army of volunteers - regular folks - who would roll up their sleeves and pitch in to boost the efforts of social workers like yourself.

East of Eden said...

"East tends to see things in black and white. Touch a child = die.
Harm a disabled or challenged person = die."

To the first - SQ, you are being silly. To the latter - yes, harm a disabled or challenged person = die. Do you have a problem with protecting those who are vulnerable? If so, that makes you lower than low.

As for seniors, good grief - there you go again. SQ, in case you had not noticed, we are discussing children but since you had to toss in that little bit of channel-changing and inanity, yes, those who abuse seniors should also be shot.

Anybody who harms a vulnerable person should be shot. Period.

mystereeoso said...

"Anybody who harms a vulnerable person should be shot. Period."

Straight down the garden path with that one, East of...and into the deep woods. Listeriosis anyone? Isotopes? Any harm coming to anyone from the shortage yet?

What is the Conservative MP for Woodstock doing to get that community off the Oxicontin?

Gayle said...

East - I do not want to mislead you. There are many areas where someone works directly with children at risk. Social workers are not the only people who do so.

Volunteers are important and helpful, but that is not the solution.

Historically it would be charities and volunteers who would meet child welfare needs. We learned long ago that the need is too great and too far reaching to be adequately met through charities and volunteers. As I pointed out, this is typical of the experience of most countries.

Gayle said...

maryT said...

Re all those children on the streets. Do you know that they have a right to be there. I got the shock of my life yesterday while renewing our contract for the care of our g/son. When I mentioned that certain caregivers were not following procedure, or doing daily exercise and breathing exercises I was told, if the person in care says no, they are forbidden to force it on them, due to some stupid decision of the UN on rights of the child. The fact that in many cases the caregiver does not want to do the procedures and can say he said no, and they are off the hook.
And why was that Right of Children from the UN happen, bleeding hearts who haven't got a clue about life. Who do I sue if my g/son dies because someone says he refuses his meds, or his lungs fill up because someone says he doesn't want to breath properly.
At what age are you no longer a child. My g/son is well over 19.
So, again, those kids have the right to be on the street and heaven help you if you try to help.
I now have to go to 7 specialits and get them to write that it is a medical necessity for things to be done 4 times a day. As legal guardian I have to prove the person is incapable of making decisions.
So Gayle, get your bleeding heart busy and help change rules so parents and caregivers can do their job and quit harming their kids, according to you.

Gayle said...

Yes Mary - every single child out on the streets is there because they have the right to refuse medical treatment. It has absolutely nothing to do with sexual abuse, abandonnment and the lack of placements.

Why don't you stop blaming the victims here.

maryT said...

Sorry Gayle, read my whole post. I am not blaming the victims, I am blaming all the bleeding hearts and organizations that pushed for that UN document. A child does have the right to refuse help, medication or whatever. The problem is these victims are never told what the consequences of insisting on those rights lead to.
I did not know until yesterday that the social service industry in AB follows those guidelines. I am in the process of finding out if I was told the truth and if it is, how to get it changed.
Same goes for kids that phone social services to complain of so called abuse from parents because they were refused a special dress, game, boyfriend or whatever. When they end up in foster care, whose fault is it. The bleeding hearts who supposedly care for these kids.
IMHO we have given to many rights without any responsibility.
And no more lectures from you Gayle, I have been dealing with handicapped and disabled and social services and family courts for over 20 yrs. I know what I am talking about, and yes, I have been responsible for changes-for the better- have you.

Gayle said...

"Same goes for kids that phone social services to complain of so called abuse from parents because they were refused a special dress, game, boyfriend or whatever. When they end up in foster care, whose fault is it."

You cannot post this and then say you know what you are talking about. This is an out and out lie. Complaints are investigated, sure, but no kid is placed into foster care just because he complained his father hit him. You can rest assured that social workers are well versed in the conduct of a typical teen and have extensive experience in separating false complaints from valid ones. If anything, they err on the side of leaving the child in the home.

You ARE blaming the victims because you are suggesting the only reason these kids are on the streets being abused and exploited is because they choose that existence for themsevles. It is a profoundly ignorant thing to say.

By the way, here is the information on a youth's right to refuse medical treatment:

maryT said...

I never said anything about a father hitting a child. And, yes, kids are taken away due to kids calls or annonomous calls. And yes, cases are investigated, usually with a preconceived idea of guilt. The social worker will try to get a family to sign a paper giving them temporary custody, then when it comes to family court, same worker will say, Your Honor, the parents did sign a paper giving us custody of said child.
And as it is usually over 3 months before you get to court, and they have not recinded the order, the parents are lost.
I take great pleasure that I managed to get 3 social workers fired, and 2 more red flagged so they will never go higher up the chain. Guess it helps to have the Social Services Minister of the time as my MLA, and on my side. When the Attorney General started to ask questions, funny, case settled and we won. In addition, a daycare center in Calgary lost their license and the manager charged with abusing kids, and reporting abuse to social services as being done by parents.
Don't bother responding Gayle, you are full of what goes down the sewer.

Gayle said...

Mary - stop making stuff up.

Social workers do not remove children because they want a boyfriend, a dress or a game.

It is beyond offensive that you would equate such trivialities to drug addicted and sexually abused children living on the streets. Maybe you should get out of your little sheltered enclave and into the real world, where bad things happen to innocent children and social services is necessary to help them.

maryT said...

Sorry Gayle, I am not making things up, and I have the cancelled cheques and other receipts to prove my point. Perhaps you should wake up, and read. In Canada kids have been removed for such things, or believing the wrong things. If you phone the abuse line and ask what they do if someone reports abuse they tell you. And you don't have to give your name, just say, I suspect x of x and bingo, you are in the system. And they do take the wrong kids sometimes. And they will take them out of daycare centers, even special needs one.
We have all been educated today, if it hasn't happened to Gayle, it hasn't happened to anyone and if you say it has, you are a liar. Also notice how she added words and events to what a person posts.

Eskimo said...

Gayle is a pompous windbag. She is typical of those that work in the welfare industry that beleive that the answer to the ills of society can only be acheived by government largesse. Mixed with a sprinkling of conservative bashing and you have her M.O.

Gayle said...

Mary - Is your problem the fact that social services has a duty to investigate all reports of abuse? Do you actually have a problem with that? Do you think they should ignore these reports?

How does whatever you are trying to say at all address my point about lack of appropriate placements for children in need.

Oh that's right, it doesn't. I write a post about how children are living on the streets, exposed to sexual exploitation and other abuses, and you come back with some story about how some day care worker made a false report once, as if that means that there are no children living on the streets, are no children who have been abused, and there is no child prostitution.

But I would love you to prove that a child has been removed from her parents home because her daddy did not buy her the dress she wanted. I am surprised that even you would expect anyone to believe that one. Well, maybe Eskimo, but that is not saying much about your powers of persuasion...