Saturday, November 29, 2008

What Gives You The Right....

To decide that the elected governing party is wrong, and you are right?

To decide that Canadians didn’t really mean to elect the Conservatives again?

To tell us that we would be happier with a coalition government because only 38% voted for Conservatives, therefore 62% want your coalition government, when no one gave you enough votes to run the country?

To give separatists a bigger roll in government, when they want to break Canada up?

To subvert a duly elected government of Canada because you don’t like the fact that you lost?

To destabilize our stock market and economy because your feelings are hurt?

To feed at the public trough, without any accountability?

To make my vote and millions of other votes worthless.

To think taxpayers owe you money because you deserve their support?

To try to rule when we told you, we rejected you, and your parties?

To arrogantly assume we really wanted you to run Canada, and just somehow didn’t vote for you?

To assume we are all as unhappy with PM Harper as you are, because you are blinded by your hate?

To impose your “values” on me even though I have different values?

To impose a PM of your choice, not the people’s choice, on us?

To destabilize my country at a time of economic turmoil?

To ignore the voters in the west, and directly cause the rise of separatism in the west?

What gives you the right to think that you know best, and that we voters are ignorant, uninformed peons that need you to guide us out of the darkness. What if we think lefties are the darkness and have no morals, no plan, and no scruples? What if we think that you are the disease that needs to be erased, eradicated, and excised from our sight? How dare you try to think for me!

What gives you the right to force a coalition government on a freedom loving Canada. Who gives you any rights? The voters. In your rush of hate, you have forgotten the voters, and their desire to climb out of the dungeon of socialism into the light of conservatism.

You forgot the most important element of democracy in your rush to fulfill your own desires, you forgot the average Canadian voter. You forgot decency, desire and one little detail, what the average voter wants.

In your arrogance to push forward your agenda, you forgot that the voters want the Conservative agenda. Beware the rise of the silent majority, beware the rise of the west.

64 comments:

robins111 said...

Well said.

and it looks like we will need to get ready for an election

frmgrl said...

Hunter excellent post. My sentiments exactly.

I am deeply angry at all of this. Once again the MSM is complicit in all of this even gleeful.

This is a total affront to our democracy. I wrote to my MP and the GG to voice my disdain for this.

We should not take this laying down. We need to fight. What is happening is just plain wrong.

To think we just celebrated Rememberance Day. What did our veterans fight for? This? I don't think so! Right now we have troops in Afhganistan so that those people can have a democratic and peaceful country. And then look what's happening here? Blows my mind!

We in Alberta are not going to take it and we shouldn't neither should any other Canadian who loves this country.

Rise up and fight for our nation. Now is our chance before it's too late.

wilson said...

I can't come up with a downside (from a Lib perspective) to the Liberals seizing power.

-No money for the leadership race,
-ugly divisive contest coming up,
install Iggy now, he's gonna win anyways.

-No platform, policies all in progress,
seize government and just ride on the good work PMSH already has in motion.

-Blame deficit spending on the Bloc and Dippers, the cost of compromise in a minority government

Archie said...

Something is up, why give the three stooges another week to plan. Who's kidding who, everyone can see that the stooges are mad because Harper is going to take away their allowance. Even the MSM is admitting this. Who in their right mind thinks that these people could actually get along, let alone govern a country. Ask Paul Martin about dealing with Taliban Jack and if he should be trusted. What Bloc MP trusts a liberal, they hate Dion with a passion. Then there some loons in the NDP who cannot stand the Liberals. Give the GG a break, even she can realize that a coalition with the stooges would do more harm to Canada then a election. It's a game of chicken and it's my bet is that the liberals will back down at the last minute, it's in their nature, they have no backbone.

sor said...

Let's not forget that there were about 10 seats that were lost by the CPC by 20-50 votes. Another election may just produce a majority.

My intuition is that this Liberal/ndp coalition was in the works for a while, just not meant to be enacted until Iggy was installed.

Harper has pulled the rug out from beneath them. Cheers.

wilson said...

What the LibDippingSeppies agree on:
Bring troops home NOW.

Shut down the Oilsands.

Oil & Gas companies need to be punished for ruining the enviro.

Kyoto must be honored (they already got that one signed sealed and delivered)

Bailing out auto, forestry and manufacturing is an absolute must.
Transferring money from the West is the answer to these and environmental policy they hold.

We would be so screwed in the West, I don't think Canadians understand to what extent.

In a coalition government,
the West plus the North
would have the representation
of 23 out of 163 MPs, on the government side of the house,
(15 of those are Dippers)
and only 1 out of every 4 Senators is Conservative today.


I'm beyond made, into resignation, that the West just doesn't fit into Canada anymore.
This battle with the lefties can not be won as long as the Seppies are enpowered, and the Liberals are willing to share government with them.
Folks, it's over.

wilson said...

p.s.

In a coalition government,
the West plus the North
would have the representation
of 23 out of 163 MPs,
on the government side of the house,
15 of those are Dippers, and most of these 15 will likely end up in cabinet positions,
because:
the West needs representation, and the Liberals want to hold Ontario.

tasso said...

So Hunter – You seem annoyed that your choice for Prime Minister may have squandered the power that he has been loaned to him by the people of Canada. Perhaps if he wasn’t so arrogant, such a political weenie that is incapable of engaging in multi-party compromise, uninterested in serving the working people of Canada that are hurting in this economic downturn, he could have survived. The opposition has the constitutional right and is definitely more in-tune with the majority of Canadians. Sadly we all loose – Harper’s remarkable lack of good judgement will thrust us all into a constitutional crisis. Are you seriously blaming the opposition for taking the political bait that has been deliberately thrown in their faces? At least we may get better leadership – a little pain would be worth it for that….

Stephen said...

The rambling list of rhetorical questions is rather incoherent, but the short answer to the post's titular question is "The Constitution of Canada."

Stephen Harper is PM only as long as he enjoys the confidence of a majority of democratically-elected representatives of the people in the House of Commons.

He seems to have lost that confidence mere days into the parliamentary session thanks to his inadequate plan to deal with the economy, coupled with an overweening sense of his own political acumen.

In the event of Harper's final failure next week, The GG would be well within her rights to ask someone else to form a government and secure the confidence of the House.

If that someone else can gain that confidence and go on to pass a budget, then we have a functioning new government--that's our parliamentary system at work.

hunter said...

Well Stephen, I'm just rambling like lefties, using emotion instead of clear headed thinking, because really anyone who watched the opposition this week realize that it is all about their entitlements and NOT about their country Canada.

Sometimes you just have to fight leftist thinking by joining in their emotional games!

Funny how they use the "it's legal" card when it works in their favour.

Stephen said...

Actually, we heard some clear-headed thinking from Stephen Harper in the throne speech, when he stressed the need for solidarity and partnership in challenging economic times.

Unfortunately, he didn't follow through as the session got underway.

Now, in a panic, his government is calling on its MPs and supporters to use "every tool at their disposal" to hold on to power.

Unfortunately, Harper is in this position because he chose this week not to use the most important tool at any Prime Minister's disposal: good judgment.

He reached into the toolbox and pulled out "petty partisanship" instead, and now the poor workman, like the old saying goes, blames his tools.

As for the remark about leftists falling back on what's legal when it works in our favour, I refer you again to the PM's words in the throne speech:

"And in a parliamentary democracy such as ours, the government must always be responsible and accountable to the people’s representatives."

Those words in honour of the 250th anniversary of responsible government in Canada articulate precisely the 'legal' and constitutional principle I laid out in my previous post.

The true test of anyone's commitment to the rule of law and the constitutional order comes when the rules don't work in their favour.

Through no one's fault but his own, Stephen Harper may be about to undergo that test. If he does, he will have a chance to show he meant what he said in the throne speech he wrote.

Filcher said...

The problem is that Harper forced the opposition to take a stand on an issue that is minimal to say the least. In these economic times a responsible government does not place the opposition parties, which the government must rely on for support, in an untenable position.

The elimination of the payout may limits the ability of the average voter to access party platforms, and to make an informed and educated selection based on the issues. The ability to allow the issues to be heard by the voters is the strongest argument in supporting this payment, and should be embraced by any party that has a comprehensive election platform to present to the electorate.

It is also peanuts compared to other government programs that have been instituted before the last election. To force an election on such a piddly little thing as party payouts, and it is forcing an election, during such a bad economic time, is irresponsible and ctiminal to the extreme.

What happened to Harper wanting to work with the other parties to solve the problems we are facing?

CC said...

Dear Stephen:

Good luck coming in here with all that logic and evidence and fact stuff. Pearls before swine. Trust me on that one.

CC

hunter said...

Oh Stephen, and what did the PM do that was so wrong that the opposition want to overthrow the government?

He threatened to take them off the public teat and that got them spitting mad. Funny how they had over 40 times last session to vote down the government and they never did. They will now, because their entitled to their entitlements and don't care two cents about average Canadians.

That is what the voters will see, their arrogant, we know better than you what you want attitudes. It stinks to high heaven, no matter how you try to wrap it up and package it.

KEvron said...

"What Gives You The Right"

ooh! ooh! pick me!

your own constitution. what do i win?

KEvron

tasso said...

Filcher – Well said – the issue here is the judgement of the Prime Minister – not his policies. It’s as if Harper wants to lose his job – I simply can’t understand how they can be so foolish. Almost insanely poor judgement….

Hunter – what Harper did was to deliberately initiate in a pretty political debate at a time when the people of Canada are in no mood to tolerate it. Also – since this session parliament has just begun – the Governor General is more inclined to ask the opposition to try to form a government. Love it of hate it – that’s just how it works…. So Steven Harper’s judgement, timing and understanding of the system are now in question… Is he still your choice for the job?

Filcher said...

Hunter says "That is what the voters will see, their arrogant, we know better than you what you want attitudes. It stinks to high heaven, no matter how you try to wrap it up and package it."


Which may be true, but Harper took a cause that would have this reaction, despite the pay outs being of such a minor nature compared to the economic crisis we may soon be in. The opposition, to remain viable, has to ensure it at least has some funding to call upon to get it's message out.

Now, rather than seeing to limiting the diverse effects of a crumbling US market on Canadian exports, Harper is going to engage in partisan politics that will not help Canada itself, but will definitely help the Conservative Party.

It will also force an election that will result in far more than the pittance that would have been saved by simply not trying to change funding of the political parties.

frmgrl said...

People are indeed very angry. I was listening to the Roy Green show on the Corus radio network and devoted his entire show to this issue. He has recieved hundreds of emails of upset people. The callers he had on were not happy either and he is livid.

He had on his show Libby Davies, NDP. She made a complete fool of herself.
Then he had Bob Rae. He too made a fool of himself.

He also had on John Baird to bring the government side. He did better.

You can listen to the whole thing at archives http://www.qr77.com/StationShared/AudioVault.aspx

Go Sat Nov29 12:00 pm

BTW: He will be talking about this issue again on tomorrows show

hunter said...

Yikes Kevron, I'm actually getting to like you, pest that you are!

Funny how the entitled only revolt when their butts are in danger. I never said it wasn't legal, in fact I stated that it was, that doesn't mean voters are going to like it.

Filcher, so if it's such a small issue why to the lefties want to overthrow the government?

Thanks Frmgrl, I'm going to go listen to it now, should be interesting, getting the views of real people instead of politicians.

Ti-Guy said...

He had on his show Libby Davies, NDP. She made a complete fool of herself.
Then he had Bob Rae. He too made a fool of himself.


Oh, stop lying.

liberal supporter said...

I pay taxes, and when I vote, $1.95 of my taxes goes to the party I voted for. That $1.95 is entirely my money, not your money. Your $1.95 went to the party of whoever you voted for. Plus everyone who didn't vote pays based on the popular vote.

You want to abolish that system, even though the money involved is MY money, and not yours.

However, you would like to maintain another system. When you donate $1.95 to the CPC, you get a tax credit. That tax credit is partly paid for by ME. So every dollar donated to a party results in all taxpayers having to match those donations. How is that fair to me? It is not.

You don't support each vote resulting in funding for parties based on the actual votes. You don't support each party receiving money based solely on who actually voted for them. You do support each dollar donated resulting in matching dollars being forked out by taxpayers. You support parties receiving money from people who would never have voted for them.


In other words, you value the dollar over the vote.

Filcher said...

Hunter says: "Filcher, so if it's such a small issue why to the lefties want to overthrow the government?"

The term 'overthrow the government' is discriminatory and argumentative, suggesting an act that is illegal, or traitorous. In fact if the vote og non confidence brings down the government, it will be at the hands of the majority of the representatives in the legislature, who do represent the majority of Canadians. It would not be the overthrow of the Government, but the natural progression of a government that loses the confidence of the majority of the people.

Kusotarre said...

What gives the opposition parties that right, you ask?

Why, the laws of this country do.

hunter said...

LS, if you get a refund from YOUR taxes for supporting a political party or charity, how is that money coming out of MY pocket? Doesn't make any sense.

But if the Liberals are willing to die on the sword of their entitlement, so be it. They might want to think about how joining with the NDP and Bloq will look to the average Canadian.

Oh I see Filcher, the party with the most MP's can be legally thrown out of office, and a new appointed leader can become PM without having to go back to the people on a vote, and this is democratic because it doesn't break any laws? Would you feel better if I called it a coup?

liberal supporter said...

If you get a tax credit, it comes out of my pocket. I am being forced to subsidize the CPC.

While the $1.95 came from my pocket and went to the party I voted for. No subsidy at all.

hunter said...

So, LS, every time I give money to a charity, it is coming out of your pocket? That's just amazing!

I give $100 to a charity, I get a tax credit for it, which reduces the amount of tax I have to pay, how did you get involved in that transaction?

Gayle said...

Hunter - I get a refund...of tax dollars...YOUR tax dollars.

hunter said...

Gayle, that makes no sense, you have nothing to do with my refund, if you do, donate your own money and get your own refund, so I can share in it too. When can I expect my $10???

EvilIncoherent said...

It's a non-refundable tax credit, so technically it can only come out of your own tax dollars.

That said, it does reduce the amount of money for services available for everyone. In that respect it comes out of my tax dollars as well, as to maintain the same level of services, taxes need to increase.

The $1.95/vote subsidy is the same thing. But, it takes a lot of $1.95 subsidies to add up to the level of subsidy paid to one $1100 donator. Just over 423 of them, in fact.

So unless you lower the maximum donation to $2.60, the tax credit on political donations is a much larger drain on taxpayer dollars per person using it than the $1.95/vote.

That all said, the blame for this falls entirely on Stephen Harper. Thanks to him, the Libs and NDP figured a way around their differences.

Good grief, any fool knows you don't corner a wounded animal unless you have the ammo to finish it off. And Harper is some 12 seats short of that ammo. So if we do wind up with a Finance Minister Layton (with all that that brings), you can blame it on Harper's focus on gaming rather than governing.

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
hunter said...

Just when I thought I was liking Kevron, he uses my blog to link to something I firmly disagree with. Go post your link on lefty blogs.

KEvron said...

"I never said it wasn't legal"

you also said "what gives you the right?", so i suspect no amount of explanation will disabsue you of your confusion.

KEvron

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...

"link to something I firmly disagree with."

so much for dissenting views in this forum, eh?

KEvron

hunter said...

Kevron, what gives you the right to totally disregard my point of view, and that of all Canadians that gave the Conservatives an increased minority? What do the Liberal/NDP think this will do for them in the next election, win them more votes in the west?

They are only thinking about getting back into power any way they can, they are not looking into the future, they are not trying to change or rebuild their party. As if Adscam wasn't bad enough, they are now trying to steal power, on a very feeble excuse. I suspect they have been plotting this with the NDP since they lost 20 MPs.

They need to grow up, and think about what is best for Canadians, not Liberals.

KEvron said...

"Funny how the entitled only revolt when their butts are in danger."

funny how wingnuts squirt sour grapes when having their butts constitutionally handed to them.

KEvron

KEvron said...

"what gives you the right to totally disregard my point of view"

why, my creator, of course.

KEvron

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
hunter said...

This is not a forum Kevron, it is a blog, and I give you lots of rope, but you keep messing yourself up. Start you own blog and spout anything you want on it.

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...

no, i like this forum.

KEvron

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...
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KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
hunter said...

I have turned comment moderation on for this post because of certain pests that offer nothing to the conversation, sorry to all posters who have a valid point to make.

Patrick Ross said...

Kevvy already has a blog.

What he lacks is the ability to think of anything to post there.

Libforlife said...

"I have turned comment moderation on for this post because of certain pests that offer nothing to the conversation,..."

No you turned it on because KEvron was making you look like a fool.

liberal supporter said...

Thanks Kev, the right wing up here are just like yours. All emotion, condescension, the politics of the particular, and "it's ok for me but not for thee".

After the hysterical sniggering about the great chess master's masterful master stroke, and after last session where they were given the chance to govern as if they had a majority due to the abstention policy, now they whine when the Opposition actually opposes. They shriek in horror that someone is standing up to Harper. They can only splutter their tired sneering points and try once again to brow beat the rest of us (correction, the MOST of us) into submission, which seemed to work before.

Meanwhile, chess history has been made: The fool's mate in three moves.

Hahahaha!

mahmood said...

KEVron whines thusly...

"so much for dissenting views in this forum, eh?"

heh heh, my dissension has been deleted from the Cynic Cesspool and banned at the dawgpound so be a big boy and quit yer whining KEVvy.

dissenLOLsion

tasso said...

Hunter – you open a discussion and seem to be frustrated with the range of opinions you illicit… I’m beginning to see why a leader like Steven Harper might appeal to you.

No on here is trying to invalidate your vote. I hope your member of parliament keeps his or her seat. We just hoped that you would see as confirmed by the Conservative party’s quick reversal on some items in their economic statement – that this is simply a tiresome political game that will not be received well by most Canadians – liberal, conservative whomever… Why would Harper reverse his views so quickly if this is a point of principal or of great relevance to the nation’s current situation?

You are entitled to your opinions as are the rest of us - I think as do many, that several items in the recent economic statement reflected neo-conservative ideals that will do nothing to contribute to the economic success or the stability of our beloved country. Their inclusion was poorly thought out and show some serious weaknesses in the highest level of leadership of our country. The Liberals had no option other than to fight this – their response was predictable and they would argue mandatory. If you have a beef about the current situation – take it up with your Prime Minister – don’t blaim Stephane Dion or the BQ.

hunter said...

No, Libforlife, he was posting a link I don't want on my blog, simple as that, and as you can see by the number of deleted comments he was doing it over, and over, and over again.

I understand that you think your comment is intelligent and actually adds to the discussion, but calling me a name makes you look like what you are calling me. Grow up and slither back over to CC's place, they probably think you are intelligent over there.

the rev. paperboy said...

That's funny, I thought Harper was elected PM not King. The opposition is just doing its job, for a change.

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...

"my dissension has been deleted from the Cynic Cesspool and banned at the dawgpound"

somebody needs a hug.

KEvron

mahmood said...

...only if you ask me nicely.

hug-a-thug-LOL

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...

"Kevvy already has a blog."

no, i don't.

KEvron

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Cameron Campbell said...

Oh look she let the link onto the site.

So, to review: the only rules here are no swearing. Kev's comment contained no swear words.

So apparently the existence of a petition calling for a coalition government falls under the heading of "posts I consider unfit for my site or my readers".

I wonder could someone tell me that story about the nanny state again and how protecting people from reality is a bad thing?

Cameron Campbell said...

Oh and frmgrl,

The people who fought and died for our country did so to protect the whole constitution, not just the bits you happen to like.

hunter said...

Well Cameron you are here at my pleasure, not yours, if you do not like it, get lost and take Kevron with you!

By the way, it appears that coalition stinks to high heaven of NDP and Bloq secret meetings. Poor Dion was a dupe, the socialists and the separatists want Dion and the Liberals to be the fall guys.

KEvron said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
KEvron said...

"and take Kevron with you!"

yes. please.

KEvron