Thursday, December 18, 2008

I Stayed Quiet.

PM Harper did more to bring Quebec into the Canadian fold than any other PM in recent history, and how did the Quebec voters reward the Conservatives? They voted for the Bloq.

Now, they try to tell us that a vote for the Bloq is not necessarily a vote for separation, but I'm not buying it, not one little bit. Look at Duceppe's recent activities, colluding with the NDP and Liberals to gain control of Parliament. When PM Harper calls them on it, he's the bad guy for even mentioning separatists. Garbage!

Quebec has used up all it's goodwill with this Albertan. When the Conservative government gave Quebec billions to fix the "fiscal imbalance", I stayed quiet. When Charest, turned around and used that money to give Quebecers a big tax break, I stayed quiet. When ALL parties in Parliament supported the "this House recognizes that Québécois form a nation within a united Canada" motion, I stayed quiet. When the Bloq constantly called for Alberta oilsands to be shutdown, I stayed quiet.

I stayed quiet believing that Quebec was worth the effort. I stayed quiet believing that Quebec would take the hand that PM Harper was extending from the rest of Canada and that they would grasp it, in unity with us. Instead, we got the one finger salute.

I will not stay quiet again. Enough, is finally enough, no more pandering to Quebec, it's time for Quebec to join Canada. No more special status, you are one province in the rest of Canada.

That's why I think PM Harper's latest move to increase seats in Ontario, BC and Alberta is a fair move, it is democratic, and best of all, by adding 21 seats in Ontario, 7 in BC and 5 in Alberta it adjusts for population representation. How will 33 extra seats impact Quebec, given that the Conservatives only need 12 more seats for a majority? Here is their response:

The Bloc, on the other hand, is steadfast in its opposition to granting Ontario more seats -- unless Quebec also benefits. “We were opposed to the original bill because it diluted the political weight of Quebec. Once it’s been recognized that the Québécois nation exists, you have to ensure that it can be heard by federal institutions,” the party’s House leader, Pierre Paquette, told La Presse. This, even though Quebec has just seven seats where the population is more than 110,000, compared to 67 in Ontario.


Dilute away PM Harper, maybe when Quebec realizes that they are not the only kid on the bloq, they will take that hand that has been extended by Canadians.

31 comments:

Patsplace said...

I too am losing it with the "we're special" nonsense of Quebec. The Bloc has brought the whole Quebec mess to a boil and now more and more Canadians are getting pissed off.

Not neat stuff that Mini-Marx, that little commie swine has stirred up. Layton is a curse.

Fay said...

Well written , I also feel that quebec played us like fools.
L.Iain MacDonald now shows us that if you place nice with Jean Charest then he will write nice things about you. But if the Conservative government are rightly upset at Chearest using equalization money for a tax cut then you are written off. Quebec only supports Canada if they get the biggest benefit. Enough!!

Southern Quebec said...

We voted for the BQ basically because no one in Quebec can stand HRH PMSH. (He lies a little too much for us.) And the BQ wants the Tar Sands shutdown, because they are an environmental disaster. That's all.

East of Eden said...

"We voted for the BQ basically because no one in Quebec can stand HRH PMSH. (He lies a little too much for us.) And the BQ wants the Tar Sands shutdown, because they are an environmental disaster. That's all."

Oh please. Nobody in Quebec can stand Harper? Give me a break. Unless you know each and every Quebecer, you cannot make that statement. Harper lies a little too much for Quebecers? Oh, and Duceppe, Chretien, Martin, Layton, Dion, Ignatieff etc. never lie? Please. This Harper lying bit is wearing so thin it's almost non-existent.

Tar sands shutdown because of the environmental issue? Sure, and Quebec doesn't contribute one iota of pollution. Since when did Quebec care about Alberta? Probably never, I'd guess. And, without the revenue from Alberta, equalization payments would be seriously reduced and Quebec would have to find other ways to support itself other than the federal money teat.

Man, oh man, the lack of logic astounds me.

treb said...

Has Quebec ever,ever,ever contributed to Canada.What is it besides poutine and corner wine and beer stores does Quebec have that contributes to Canada.??????Has Quebec ever been a have province and given to other provinces.?????C,mon you Quebecers explain to us why we should be happy to have you as one of our provinces.I,m sure Newfoundland is happy with you for stealing its revenue from electricity.How about tradesmen in Ontario who can't work in Quebec,but Quebec tradesmen can take Ontario jobs.How about Ontario becoming a have not province and Quebec receiving $7 billion.Tell us Quebecer's why we should be happy about having your politicians coming to Ottawa,Trudeau,Chretien,Dion and screwing up Canada so badly that we are fighting each other.Tell us why we should be happy with Quebecers taking our money and giving themselves tax breaks while our taxes increased.Tell us why we should be happy with Quebec for trying with the help of their GD idiotic block leader Duceppe to overthrow our elected government.Tell us Quebec why we should try to be nice to you when you keep stabbing us in the back and lying to us to get our money,like some poor downtrodden people.Those days have been over for 50 years now,you are a modern society,that discriminates the rest us and then yells and screams about the Maudit Anglais.Those days are over and we are fed up with you.So shut the F up or get out of Canada.We will put out the lights thank you and we will shut the door.Now get lost.

Alberta Girl said...

Southern Quebec - your comment shows what an idiot you are and how you really know NOTHING about either Harper or the "tar sands"

Pearce Richards said...

Interesting post, a tad alarmist, but that's your style.

Looking back to the election, it becomes clear that the Quebecois realistically weren't going to vote for the CPC. The party doesn't represent their values (social justice, etc). This means they had four parties to choose from (BQ, NDP, Liberals, Green), two that are nearly identical (BQ, NDP), but only one whose sole existence is the progression of Quebec (The BQ).

The party has a lot of great ideas... The regional focus, genuine concern for the residents of the province, made in Canada policy, etc. The problem, obviously, is their desire to separate.

However, this is far more complex than you (Hunter) or some of your posters are making it out to be. Any further discussion would involve getting into the nature of Canada as a culturally heterogeneous, pluralistic society. And in that reality, the Bloc is just trying to stake out its claim on the pie for the group they represent (Quebecois).

But really, the separatist movement was dead in the water until Harper came in and declared them a nation, then made "separatist" a curse word in branding the coalition.

If you want to look somewhere to place the blame for the Bloc's revival in Quebec, blame the CPC... Well, and the Liberals for adscam.

Pearce Richards said...

One further comment, yes, I do realize that Ignatieff was one of the earliest supporters of "Quebec as a nation within a united Canada". The move in and of itself is mostly symbolic, as the constitutional hurdle required for a province to actually secede is nigh insurmountable. The problem was the constant bait and switch Harper gave the people in Quebec regarding social policy. Dangle a carrot, then cuff them in the ear. Dangle a carrot, cuff, etc etc.

maryT said...

Treb, you left out the enormous cost of bilingualism forced on the ROC, and the fact that one can speak a few words of english to be considered bilinugal, and get the jobs, but one must be fluent in french to get the same job.
The translation costs of every piece of legislation, is enourmous.

Alberta Girl said...

Pearce

I think you mistake Hunter's post as blaming the Bloc.

I certainly don't blame the Bloc - they have been more than upfront about what they want.

I don't even blame the Quebec people for jumping on board with them - I mean what province doesn't want the upper hand in Canada.

I blame the country for continually bowing to Quebec with a "we love you; please don't leave; here take this and this and this and this; and this if it means you won't leave" attitude.

I blame government for continually bowing to Quebec at the expense of the rest of Canada because they might get angry.

I do blame Quebec for continually saying they are "different" and therefore we have to treat them "differently".

I agree with Hunter saying that I am tired of it; it is time for Quebec to either put up or shut up.

Either you want to be part of Canada like the rest of us or you don't.

It is your choice but don't expect us to beg you to stay anymore.

You have held us for ransom for long enough and it is obvious that there will never be enough that we can do to satisfy you so it is time to let you go if that is what you want.

The ball is in your court.

Bec said...

Pierce Richards said,

"But really, the separatist movement was dead in the water until Harper came in and declared them a nation, then made "separatist" a curse word in branding the coalition.

If you want to look somewhere to place the blame for the Bloc's revival in Quebec, blame the CPC... Well, and the Liberals for adscam."

Is this not exactly what the posters are saying. This statement implies that if you do not walk on cracked eggshells all of the time, the threat is alive and well.

So far, no one has chastised Southern Quebec, for calling the "OILSANDS" the "TARSANDS" and insulting Albertans with that famous lack of knowledge or facts.

A coalition of Quebec bred politicians, got together and planned to take over the govt. Legal or not, that is an insult.
How would everyone feel if the situation was reversed; you know walk a mile in someone elses shoes?

Pearce Richards said...

Alberta Girl - A good point, and thank you for pointing it out. I misread the intent of Hunter's post.

In the end (for me anyway) I feel that Quebec gives back more than they take. This isn't talking money... Obviously they take more of that haha. It is in regards to the intangible stuff that makes Canada, well, Canadian. The arts (comedy, theater, etc), sports, all the stuff that may not bring the Bordens into the bank, but make Canada a rich and vibrant place to live.

Maybe I'm just biased because I see how crappy Canada's hockey team would be without the Quebec players.

Bic - I'm not saying we need to walk on eggshells to keep Quebec. Separatism is a foolish notion, given the constitutional amendment that would have to take place. The problem is Quebec is a part of Canada, and always will be. The CPC still needs to win seats in Quebec in order to win a majority, period. What I'm saying is that nuking bridges the way Harper and the CPC did in the House of Commons is no way to operate a minority parliament. Flat out insulting the BQ the way they did was foolhardy.

Pearce Richards said...

Oh, and Oilsands is purely a synonym for Tarsands. No need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

sor said...

As the power and wealth grows in the west Quebec becomes less and less relevant. There will soon be a tipping point where the ROC does not need Quebec and will no longer put up with their whining.

Too bad the MSM wouldn't start asking them how they plan to support all of their special social programs without their allowance for Alberta.

Let's call a spade a spade. They are a 'kept' province and they should admit to it. A relationship goes two ways so let's ask Quebec at every opportunity what they are contributing to Canada. Cheers. SOR

East of Eden said...

I have lived in Quebec twice in my life and, yes, it does have its distinct culture - the language, the food, architecture (old Europe), and a different way of life (not always a good difference) but I have also lived in Manitoba, Alberta, and Ontario. Each of those provinces has its own culture and distinct features, as well. Manitoba is my home province and I miss quite a lot of its personality and food (Ukrainian food is so good). I imagine that BC is distinct because of its North and South Asian population - certainly the food would be good (food is an important part of culture, IMHO).

As a Canadian, I am tired of Quebec demanding recognition for being special. We are all Canadian and it is time for Quebec to either stifle or leave. One or the other but not both. My entire life, I have seen successive federal governments pander to Quebec and it really has to stop. Whether the average Quebecois wishes it or not, Quebec is part of Canada. Full stop. End of story.

The only positive thing I'll say for the Bloc is that it lives up to its mandate. I disagree with its mandate and existence in Parliament but I will give it credit for living up to its mandate.

West Coast Teddi said...

East and Others

I do embrace Quebec and its people as being distinct within the Canadian and North American context. Their whole aspect of life is "different" or "unlike" mine (can't speak for others) so as a society they are at liberty to do as they please.

My issue is that I feel we are equals within Canada and that there is a perception that the Quebecois want to be "more equal". Is it my perception or is it theirs?

Equality does not necessarily mean in numbers and I think most would feel that the Province represents about 25% of the population and land mass of the Country and thus if the number of seats goes up then all the ratios need to be rebalanced. PEI is guaranteed the same number of seats as they have Senators (4). I don't begrudge the Territories having 1 voice/vote for their small populations. The two prairie provinces are subject to the 1979 formula (I thinks that is correct!!) so they remain with their 14 seats. In a perfect world it would be 1 person 1 vote but as I all know Canada is not perfect!!

Should Quebec demand outright equality (50/50) with "the rest of Canada" then they might as well go it alone. What Quebec has brought to "me" is a benefit in my opinion but when the "expense" begins to out way that benefit, I too will begin to speak up as Hunter has done in this post.

Merry Christmas Everyone

kursk said...

"The party has a lot of great ideas... The regional focus, genuine concern for the residents of the province, made in Canada policy, etc. The problem, obviously, is their desire to separate"

Made in Canada policy? What?

I also take issue that Quebec culture makes one bit of difference to the rest of Canada.Quebec's art scene (music,literature, theater, art, radio etc..) is all produced for the consumption of the French language speaking Quebecois.

I could not name you any of the current stars of that scene, and as i do not speak French, i could care less.

Quebec is the tail that wags the dog,one who thinks Canada owes them a living, when they have been a net drain on Canada's coffers until fairly recently.

Citizens of Quebec have learned to play a very disingenuous game.They say and do just enough to garner the perks of confederation whilst cozying up to separatists for their so called cultural needs.

With seat additions in other provinces, those days are quickly coming to an end.

liberal supporter said...

So far, no one has chastised Southern Quebec, for calling the "OILSANDS" the "TARSANDS" and insulting Albertans with that famous lack of knowledge or facts.

I worked there, it was called the Tar Sands then. It is hilarious that you pretend to be insulted.

The fact is that the material in this region is Bitumen mixed with sand. Calling it tar is more accurate based on its consistency. One can make synthetic crude oil from it, so you can call it oil sand, but in its initial state it is as thick as tar. I suppose you could call cattle in a field "meat on the hoof" but usually it is called meat after processing.

Personally, I always preferred the name Tar Sand. It alludes to the fact that it is a lot of work and ingenuity to make it into oil. We had to figure out how to do it and build a whole infrastructure around it. Much more impressive than sticking a pipe a few metres into the ground and having oil gush out. Oil sand sounds like you are simply wringing it and oil drops out.

wilson said...

''Quebec has used up all it's goodwill with this Albertan''

As some journalist said,
Quebec has hit it's high water mark.
In other words, they are maxed out, the ROC has drawn the line at the 'coalition'.
Quebec can take it or leave it.
Quebec's response:
Charest majority.

Time for the silent majority in Quebec, those 60% of Quebecers who didn't vote Bloc, the grown ups,
to take the lead.

Every large family has that one child that 'needs' to be told they are pretty or smart or 'unique'.
That child is insecure and demanding of the others.

Canada isn't the problem nor the solution for Quebecers insecurities.

wilson said...

''Once it’s been recognized that the Québécois nation exists, you have to ensure that
*it can be heard*
by federal institutions,” the party’s House leader, Pierre Paquette, told La Presse.

Isn't that just precious!

But it's just fine and dandy that a coalition would steal the voices of 49 Western MPs
and give their voice to 49 Bloc/Quebec MPs (giving Quebec 65/75 representation in Canada).

That was the final straw for me.
How dare Quebecers think it's alright to kill the Western voice BECAUSE Quebec would benefit.
That's like stealing your sister's milk money to buy yourself smokes.

I used to care, deeply, that Quebec stayed.
Sorry Preston,
it just didn't work.
Stay or go, what ever....

Southern Quebec said...

EofE:
What exactly bothers you about our way of life in Quebec?

The TarSands were changed to Oil Sands because of the PR guys at the big oil companies. Nothing more...

Kursk: You never heard of Leonard Cohen, Mordecai Richler, Jean-Paul Riopelle, Kate & Anna McGarrigle, Cirque de Soliel, etc, etc...? (I leave out Celine Dion for obvious reasons ie BLAH!)

wilson said...

yes Southern Quebec,
you are prettier than the rest of us,
you are smarter than the rest of us,
you are 'unique'.
Feel better now?
Good enough to make it on your own without Daddy slipping you a few bucks for cigs?

East of Eden said...

"What exactly bothers you about our way of life in Quebec?"

And how, pray tell, did you get that impression? I was pointing out that we are all Canadian and that each province has its own distinct personality. I believe that all Canadians are equal and I do not believe that Quebec should be special. Really, what gives Quebec the right to continue on this course?

Quebec, like every other province, has its own personality and that's fine - that's what I like about Canada. The Maritimes are distinct and that's great. Manitoba has an evident Ukrainian influence (gotta love the food) and that's wonderful.

The way of life in Quebec is fine. I left Montreal because I was sick of the traffic jams every day, all day. Even when I visit, I seem to get stuck in a jam but at least I don't put up with it on a daily basis. I am bilingual so language was not an issue. I love the restaurants in Montreal as well as the vibrance of Ste. Catherines on a Saturday night.

Now, if I want a Quebec fix, I simply cross the river to Hull or Aylmer - it's not as Quebecois as Montreal or Quebec City but it is different than Ottawa.

No problems with the way of life in Quebec - except for Montreal traffic.

Bec said...

"Oh and oil sands is just a synonym for tar sands..."

Yes and separatists is just a synonym for sovereignists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec _sovereignty_movement

"In
practice, "separatism", "independence" and "sovereignty" are all used to describe the goal of having the province of Quebec leave Canada to become a country on its own, with future possibilities of various collaborations with Canada. However, sovereignty is the term most commonly employed."

It all depends on who and why one is offended....

sor said...

What bothers non-Quebecers about Quebec's way of life is simple. It is funded by the ROC in part.

At some point Quebec has to realize that they cannot have it both ways.

Nobody is saying that Quebec shouldn't receive money for culture, etc in equalization payments, just show a little generosity towards those maintaining your lifestyle.

When was the last time anyone ever heard Quebec say a positive thing about the ROC.

Charest now believes he can cozy up to the Liberals and that will put them back in power but he is obviously not adding correctly. Quebec will never again wield any power greater than it has right now.

The west is growing at the greatest rate and the Liberals are non existent out here. You would no more see a westerner vote Liberal as a Quebecer vote NDP.

The whole political structure is changing and the coalition power grab showed that the other parties see that.

GrantK1 said...

Oh and oil sands is just a synonym for tar sands..."

Yes and separatists is just a synonym for sovereignists

And don't forget the best one:
Climate change is just a synonym for global warming.

Hunter great post I couldn't agree more.

LS: tarsands/oilsands who cares, it's certainly helping to pay for Quebecs culture wouldn't you say?

gpconservative said...

I think what it boils down to for me. Is Quebecors in general do not understand the ROC at all. They look only inwards and want the ROC to understand them.

liberal supporter said...

I think what it boils down to for me. Is Quebecors in general do not understand the ROC at all.
Quebecor owns Sun Media. I would think it understands the ROC pretty well. If they can sell newspapers in Calgary as well as Toronto, they must have a pretty good understanding.

sor said...

Quebecor is not synonymous with the Quebec population as a whole.

As someone who was born and raised in Quebec most French speaking Quebecers know very little about the ROC other than what they get from left wing TV pundits.

A good example is their response to Harper. As long as he was pandering to them he was great but as soon as he had to make decisions for the good of Canada they threw him under the bus. Why? Because they don't know or care about Canada. Only about themselves all of the time.

hunter said...

Welcome SOR and all new posters.

Interesting comments and discussion. It appears most posters want Quebec in Canada not as "special", but as equals.

Darth Vader said...

I don't think the Bloc has as much to fear as the NDP do. The few resources they have will be stretched even thinner.

Layton has the NDP solidly in fourth place. After years of existance they can't seem to budge.

Even the Bloc is ahead of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they give Layton the boot. If they don't I think the party will eventually fade away.