Wednesday, December 17, 2008

The Opening Of Pandora's Box Has Occurred!

Lots of experts and reporters, are saying the coalition is dead, and that Canadians can relax and go back to the business of ignoring politics. But, the stink lingers on in the minds of voters, and it's not going to go away anytime soon. I expect it to rear it's head again next election, not just with political parties and ads, but in the minds of Canadians, we almost lost our most precious right, the right to vote and for that vote to be heard.

The MSM is working hard to make it seem like it was all PM Harper's fault, but that's not how voters are going to remember it. I remember being shocked with the naked power grab the three parties tried to impose on Canadians because it was "constitutional". I remember thinking that they can not do this, to me, they can not erase my vote, so it became personal.

That was the big miscalculation of the coalition, funny, for once they went with facts, and were shocked that Canadians reacted emotionally, when usually they are the ones that use emotion to make their points. It backfired, badly.

The opening of Pandora's Box has occurred. Every voter going into the polling station from now on, will ask themselves, "will my vote count, or will a coalition government wipe it out"? It was bad enough when people were voting only on party lines, but now they will be voting for or against a possible coalition government.

This issue is far from dead, it lives and breathes as a whole new idea that Canadians must consider from now on. It will be sitting in Parliament during question period. It will be sitting on opposition members shoulders, egging them on. It will spark arguments in committees that the opposition already rule. It will continue to smell bad to Canadian voters no matter how hard the MSM tries to cover it with a rosy gloss.

What amazes me, is that the opposition in a minority government, already holds the balance of power. They can bring any minority government down, at any time. They can vote any bill they don't like down, they can introduce their own bills and get them passed, like they did with their Kyoto bill. They already have the power to band together, at any time they want. Plus, they have the advantage in the Senate. They have the aces in their hands and they think they are twos. There was NO politically sound reason for these parties to band together, except for power, to get they hands on the till of Canada, and drive it into the ground, planting only bad seeds that never germinate, or if they do, they are a hideous, misshapen representation of democracy.

So why the need for a coalition? Why were they in such a hurry, after only 6 sitting days of Parliament to bring the Conservative government down by forming this coalition? Do they hate PM Harper so much that they risked this coalition with separatists?

I think the answer is yes, but it's not just PM Harper they can't stand, it's reform MP's that especially send them into spasms of indignation. They could see their parties reduced influence and that power had to be grabbed back quickly. Dion had nothing to lose, he was already a goner, but if he could have pulled this off, what a glorious rise out of the dung heap, into the PM's seat that would have been! ALL LIBERALS supported this move, with visions of sugar plum jobs dancing in their heads. New leader Iggy has not yet given up on Dion's vision of power, he has NOT ruled out a coalition in the future. The coalition is still stinking up the joint!

Let's be clear, the Liberals, NDP, and Bloq banded together to try and take power. Pandora's Box has been opened. Never again will Canadians think that their vote counts, as they intended. The coalition threat has been released, and will be used again. It is inevitable.

Canadian voters now understand that their vote is truly precious, and must not be taken lightly, because it can be misconstrued by political parties into something they didn't mean.

Pandora's Box, once opened, can not ever be shut again.

52 comments:

Alberta Girl said...

Excellent!!!

This little power grab has awakened the voters of Canada.

I wonder what they have up their sneaky little sleeves because I get the feeling that they are planning something but are going to be sneakier about it.

And what is with Layton lying to Canadians by saying that they should be working but Harper shut the doors. um Jackie; you would have been on your 6 week Christmas break right now. Cut the bull crap and tell the truth for once.

freedom87 said...

ohhhhh you're so dramatic

Ardvark said...

This is why the Liberals are now playing nice for the cameras.


I think I even heard Brison make a positive comment about the Harper Government the other day.

Bec said...

Jack Layton, is the most frightening politician in Canada, currently. I would not under estimate him again. I hope that the electorate feels a similar disconnect.
I lost clarity about him because I actually thought he might be a relevant leader for the extreme left.
He has created such an enormous mistrust that the NDP may loose votes to the Liberal now afterall.

I thought at the time how PMSH may be calculating the party subsidies. It would have made as much sense for JL and the dippers to support that initiative as to not.
They could have destroyed the Liberals and become the opposition.
Afterall they have a grassroots donor base. Just greed, pure and simple...oh and the "gotta live on the dole" mentality.

Patsplace said...

Mini-Marx and Duceppe would have had control over Dion and as they're both hard core Marxists, they would have implimented their hideous ideology and we would have been saddled with it.

I'm not sure how close this thing came to getting violent. There were sure a pile of people madder'n I've seen anyone for a very long time.

RavenTraveller said...

Perhaps there should be a change in the election rules to require parties to publish any potential formal or informal coalitions they would consider if not elected with a majority and to have these included on the ballot.

If the CPC ever gets a majority in the commons and senate legislation should be introduced to guide the Governor General with respect to his or her actions when a Government is defeated, with the default always being an election. Calling on another leader to form a government should be very restricted. For example, to situations where the Governing Party does not have the largest number of seats and has refused to resign or where there is a clear and present threat to democracy or security.

maryT said...

Didn't Paul Martin ignore a vote of no confidence.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Do they hate PM Harper so much that they risked this coalition with separatists?

I think the answer is yes, but it's not just PM Harper they can't stand, it's reform MP's that especially send them into spasms of indignation.


You nailed it there, Hunter!!

Jack Layton oozes pure hatred. He calls it an issue of 'trust' and says that no matter what kind of budget Harper delivers, he won't trust him, so that effectively means that his party won't support anything Harper does.

The Liberals still have a faint glimmer of credibility and should immediately disassociate themselves from the Bloc and NDP, if they have any hope of even retaining the seats they already have. They may gain seats in Quebec, but that will be it. Western Canada will shun them.

mystereeoso said...

Re: "Jack Layton, is the most frightening politician in Canada, currently."

That's hilarious.What are you scared of? What do you even know about Jack? From wiki:

"Layton comes from a long line of politicians. His great-granduncle, William Steeves, was a Father of Confederation. His great-grandfather Philip Layton was a blind activist who led a campaign for disability pensions in the 1930s. His grandfather, Gilbert Layton, was a cabinet minister in the Union Nationale government of Maurice Duplessis in Quebec, and resigned due to the provincial government's lack of support for Canadian participation in World War II. His father, Robert Layton, was a Liberal Party activist in the 1960s and 1970s, and served as a Progressive Conservative Member of Parliament (MP) and Cabinet minister in the 1980s.[2]

Layton was born in Montreal and reared in nearby Hudson, Quebec, a comfortable and largely anglophone community.[3] He was elected student council president of his high school, and his yearbook predicted that he would become a politician.[4] He studied political science at McGill University, and in 1969, at age 19, he married his high school sweetheart Sally Halford, with whom he had two children, Sarah and Mike.[5] Layton and Halford's marriage ultimately ended in 1983 after 14 years.

In 1970, the family moved to Toronto where Layton went to York University to obtain his Ph.D. in political science. Layton then became a professor at Ryerson University.[6] He also became a prominent activist for a variety of causes. He has written several books, including Homelessness: The Making and Unmaking of a Crisis and, more recently, a book on general public policy, Speaking Out."

contrast with PMSH also from Wikifrom Wiki:

"Harper was born in Toronto, the first of three sons of Margaret (née Johnston) and Joseph Harper, an accountant at Imperial Oil.[5] He attended Northlea Public School, while living at 332 Bessborough Avenue in Leaside. Later, while living at 57 Princess Anne Crescent, he attended John G. Althouse Middle School and Richview Collegiate Institute, both in Central Etobicoke. He graduated in 1978, at the top of his class with a 95.7% average, and was a member of Richview Collegiate's team on Reach for the Top, a television quiz show for Canadian high school students.[6] Harper then enrolled at the University of Toronto but after two months he dropped out, then moved to Edmonton, Alberta, where he found work at Imperial Oil, in the mail room.[7] Later, he would advance to work on the company's computer systems. He took up post-secondary studies again at the University of Calgary, where he completed a Bachelor's degree in economics. He later returned there to earn a Master's degree in economics, completed in 1993. Harper has kept strong links to the University of Calgary, and often guest-lectured there. He is the first prime minister since Lester B. Pearson not to have attended law school."

GrantK1 said...

Don't worry I haven't thrown out my CCCP (Central Canadian Coalition Party) sign yet. I do have to revise it though from Layton-Dion-Duceppe to Layton-Pick any Librano Leader-Duceppe.

I expect to have to use this sign again once parliament resumes and Layton continues his coup.

mystereeoso said...

Coup is used incorrectly. A coup is not constitutional. The proposed coalition is constitutional, therefore cannot be correctly called a coup.

mystereeoso said...

BTW, I'm grateful for the coalition, whether it actually comes to form the government or not. It proves the majority of parliamentarians DO CARE about my vote - and are not going to cave in to slacker bullies who recant on their words like The CPOC's PMSH has done on everything from fixed elections to senate reform to never run a deficit...you name it.

East of Eden said...

Stereo: Layton's pedigree really doesn't have anything to do with his own reality. He could have the most stellar of ancestors nad still turn out to be a yutz so his background means little. Personally, I find him to be a bit extreme and petty but that's just my opinion which I am free to make and to hold.

As for the word "coup" - there is, of course a definition but we can use the word in other contexts if we wish. I, like Hunter, saw this action as a coup even though it was constitution and legal. The intent was to overthrow the current government - legally but a coup, nevertheless.

LogicallySpeaking said...

""Never again will Canadians think that their vote counts, as they intended."

Meaning, never again (and I seem to recall another pissed off Conservative blogger at the use of the phrase "never again" by the Liberals, but that's an aside).. never again will Canadians be so blindly ignorant of how a parliamentary democracy (i.e. our government) works.

You feel cheated (or would feel cheated by the coalition) because you thought you went to the polls to vote for Stephen Harper for prime minister.

The problem is: you didn't. That's not how our system of government works, no matter how much you might pretend it is.

LogicallySpeaking said...

"The intent was to overthrow the current government - legally but a coup, nevertheless."

That would make election campaigning by opposition parties attempted (or successful) coups as well.

Alberta Girl said...

"Coup is used incorrectly. A coup is not constitutional. The proposed coalition is constitutional, therefore cannot be correctly called a coup."

HA HA - Trying a bit too hard to justify it there, Myesteroroeemyestoo?

To rehash a famous phrase


A coup is a coup is a coup and the coup is the coup. Or something like that.

Alberta Girl said...

LS (hmmm why does that sound familiar??)

"The problem is: you didn't. That's not how our system of government works, no matter how much you might pretend it is."

Um our system of government is that we have an election and the one with the highest seat count gets to govern. If the house does not have confidence; they vote no confidence and the PM goes to the GG to call and election.

What in God's name would make you think she would do anything else - especially given the outcry against the coal...er coup.

mystereeoso said...

E of E, you certainly are entitled to all the received wisdom you can swallow.

Re: "As for the word "coup" - there is, of course a definition but we can use the word in other contexts if we wish."

Yes there is a definition - a coup is an illegal usurpation of the government - often violent. Using the word in other contexts will not change what it means no matter how hard you might WISH.


Re" I, like Hunter, saw this action as a coup even though it was constitution{sic} and legal. The intent was to overthrow the current government - legally but a coup, nevertheless."

Well that's what PMSH is saying in his "interviews" with people. From my perspective, the coalition was formed in response to an economic update during a crisis that had no economy stimulating substance except to poke the opposition. I mean, has Flaherty even given Kevin Page the list of crown assets he's putting up for sale?

coupNOT.

mystereeoso said...

Actually, Alberta girl, if you think about it, I simply stated a fact.

wilson said...

Maybe this SHOULD happen:

Layton + Duceppe Coalition = Official Opposition

bye bye Iggy (77 seats isn't enough)
http://thealbertaardvark.blogspot.com/2008/12/jack-layton-to-move-into-stornoway-as.html

Pearce Richards said...

"HA HA - Trying a bit too hard to justify it there, Myesteroroeemyestoo?"

Actually, that poster is using knowledge, reason, and logic to spell out a very simple aspect of basic parliamentary procedure. Calling it a coup is pure sensationalist rhetoric. But, I'm not going to get in the way of your rhetoric fest, so by all means, coup away.

wilson said...

''I mean, has Flaherty even given Kevin Page the list of crown assets he's putting up for sale?''

Has the Conservative government tabled a budget YET?
Page is a BUDGETARY OFFICER, not an Economic Update denier.

mystereeoso said...

Please inform yourself Wilson

wilson said...

The sale of overseas property was announced in 2007,
perhaps Page could find the list, or aske the Globe and Mail:

''The sale is part of a co-ordinated plan to modernize the department's extensive real-estate holdings, including a major selloff of property in London. Also believed to be on the auction block is the ambassador's residence in Stockholm...
ALAN FREEMAN
September 28, 2007

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070928.DUBLIN28/TPStory/National

mystereeoso said...

Specific to this update and the pending budget and stimulus package?

mystereeoso said...

It is almost 2009 is it not?

frmgrl said...

Good post. I agree whole heartitly with you Hunter. Voters will not forget. Next election they will wonder if their vote is for their party or for the coalition.

No matter how some of you slice and dice this coalition coup, a majority of Canadians are rejecting it.

It should Canadians choice of what we want not what these power hungry party leaders and their minions want.

maryT said...

Hunter, knowing you have teenage sons, could you or someone help me.
What is Rainbow 2. Is it a video game, computer game or what. My w/chair bound g/son has been asking for it for months and I have no idea. Does it even exist, he says he saw it on his computer. But, as he is deaf, it is sometimes hard to understand him.
He has asked Santa for it, and I have asked salespeople but I just get a strange look. I think it might be an old game but what do I know.
Thanks for anyones help.

The Rational Number said...

From the original post, "They can bring any minority government down, at any time."

I don't think the opposition wanted to bring the government down, but it couldn't support the economic update. Voting against that does bring the government down because it is a confidence motion.

I don't think Canadians are ready for another election so soon, but if the opposition is forced to bring down the government because they vote against a confidence motion there would normally be another election. The coalition is the only way to BOTH vote down the update AND avoid another election so soon.

Seriously, who thought the opposition would trigger another election so early in the session? I'm left to think this minority government thought they could pass anything they want without challenge.

So, IMHO the opposition actions make me feel like my vote counts even more than I thought - though my preferred party didn't win they won't be ignored by the government.

wilson said...

'Town hall-style meetings across Canada are scheduled for the New Year.'

This is good! the Government of Canada is going to go straight to the people for consutltaions on the budget....

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081218/flaherty_council_081218/20081218?hub=TopStories

maryT said...

Congrats on being picked up by JNW with this post,

East of Eden said...

"I don't think the opposition wanted to bring the government down, but it couldn't support the economic update."

RN - valid point. That being said, given the hunger for power on the part of the two and a half leaders who formed the coalition, I'd say that the economic statement was just an excuse. As deep blue as I am, I was not impressed with the statement nor was I impressed that our PM chose it as an opportunity to cease federal funding of political parties - the timing stunk. I do believe, however, that no matter what was in the statement, the 2.5 leaders would have formed their coalition and tried to bring down the Harper government for no other reasons other than their desire for diluted power and their personal dislike for the PM.

In my life, if I have to work in tandem with another person or group for common goal and what they show is not good enough, I will not criticize but, rather, add my own input and if necessary insist that it be modified in order to have my signature on the finished product.

Unfortunately, the 2.5 leaders not only do not have viable input but they wouldn't share it even if they did for they care not a whit about Canadians but only their own quest for personal power - albeit split 2.5 ways and, therefore, diluted and ineffective - to the detriment of us, the Canadian citizens.

West Coast Teddi said...

MaryT did a google on "the game Rainbow 2" and a number of options came up. don't know if this is the one or not (I still am trying to work out Freecell!!) Good Luck and Merry Christmas.

ScottS said...

"From my perspective, the coalition was formed in response to an economic update during a crisis that had no economy stimulating substance except to poke the opposition."

We now know that Layton and Duceppe were cooking this little plan up before the election due to a Tory being accidentally invited to the conference call. The economic update was purposely "poisoned" to reveal this coup-in-waiting.

You logic is flawed.

mystereeoso said...

Re: "The economic update was purposely "poisoned" to reveal this coup-in-waiting."

Again, the use of the word coup is facetious at best and also fallacious, as has been established. As to flawed logic? Try your sentence above. The economic update was provocative and lacking in substance. End. Of. Story.

treb said...

WE WILL REMEMBER---A vote for Liberal,,Block,,NDP,,Green Party gets you a coalition that can never be trusted.So in effect your vote will be wasted.Only voters that need show up at the polling stations are the Conservatives.The rest of you coalition lovers stay home till you learn what democracy is.

Nullig said...

Luckily, the CPC has reached it's "High Water" mark. This past election has shown that they will never attain a majority. They ran a 6 month campaign against the least effective opposition ever and still could not get a majority.

That's gotta hurt.

liberal supporter said...

Fabulous post, hunter!

You are quite right the Pandora's Box has been opened.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

Alberta Girl said...

"Luckily, the CPC has reached it's "High Water" mark. This past election has shown that they will never attain a majority."

Says who Nullig.

This past election showed them fighting against a gang of four that used everything in their power to bring them down (even so much as not attacking each other - which leads me to believe that the beginnings of a planned coup - yes coup - were underway) and a media bent on cheering on anyone but Harper.

And he still increased his seats.

Trust me; when another election is called - it will be a majority.

The Rational Number said...

To East of Eden: from my point of view, the opposition stated they'd work with the government on the economy in this time of crisis, that this is no time for games.

The same as you, I'd say that the economic statement was just an excuse. But to me it looks like an excuse for Harper to add some unrelated partisan riders and push them through on a confidence vote like he did too many times last parliament. Or, he's just daring the opposition to force another election this soon, which is also insane.

I think the upcoming budget (update, whatever) is a 'hot potato'. The Conservatives don't want to be accused of spending on stimulus which turns out to fail, or to be blamed for a deficit.

They'd like the opposition to contribute suggestions, which they accept only under threat of a coalition. Then they can blame the opposition for the deficit and any failure of the stimulus to revive the economy.

Iggy can see this too, and has tossed the 'hot potato' back to Harper. How can credible suggestions be made without a coherent model from which to develop them? Flaherty has already revised his numbers once since the update.

Iggy figures if the Conservatives don't come up with numbers, he can paint them as uncooperative. If they come back with too optimistic numbers, the same applies. If Flaherty comes back with pessimistic numbers (I think this will be the case) then Iggy will beat him over the head with them. Partisan response to a partisan tactic - right back at ya.

liberal supporter said...

Yes, the coup was foiled. Now, we have a situation where Parliament was suspended to avoid losing a confidence vote. Governing without the defacto support of the house makes the current government a junta.

The coup by the gang of four was foiled by installing the Harper junta.

maryT said...

Home from shopping and the malls were full of people carrying lots of parcels. After months of looking, I was in Wal-Mart and there was a bin of discounted videos etc. Right on top was Rainbow 2. It is an x-box came, warns of violence, and mature content. Didn't buy it, but I now know what it is. Bought wii stuff instead. We have to be very careful of games etc as flashing, lights etc cause him to go into seizures.
Heard lots of comments today about I thought we were in a depression, guess it is a media thing.
Bank wont be happy, my credit card stayed in the wallet.

hunter said...

MaryT, asked my boys, they think he means Rainbow Six, Vegas2, it's a shooter game for the Xbox360. Some other recommendations from my 13 year old, Call of Duty World at War, and FarCry2. Make sure your grandson has a XBox360. Email me if you have further questions, they can answer them for you, now that they are home from school.

Bec said...

Holy smokes Hunter, quite the action!

Some of the posters commented on the coalition etc..read this!

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/439238

I came across it tonight, trying to debate someone that shall remain nameless.

I wanted to pop in and wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and safe and secure 2009!

Cheers!

Darth Vader said...

If the Three Stooges actually do pull off a coup and end up running the government does anyone seriously think that it will be recognized as legitimate outside of Toronto?

What happens if Alberta and Saskatchewan said that the Feds no longer had authority over them?

Do you think the armed forces would back Layton? Fat Chance!

hunter said...

Bec, Merry Christmas to you and all those you love!

That is a very interesting link from way back in September, good catch!

Bec said...

Darth Vader,

HA HA HA, oh my goodness! That is a thought that is worth finally enjoying the holidays!...I'm still giggling! Cheers!

East of Eden said...

Rational Number: quite right re: the partisan tone of the economic statement. As a deep blue supporter, I was appalled by the statement and the inclusion of the party funding issue. The economic part of the statement was empty and it was certainly not the time for the funding issue. Despite my deep blue roots, I would dearly love to see Flaherty replaced. He is the wrong person to be in the Finance Minister's seat. For some reason, our PM who is normally so rational and logical, has not seen fit to replace him.

The only positive re: Flaherty is winning his riding despite Brent Fullard's crowing to the contrary - he was going to beat the pants of Flaherty, etc. Too bad for him that he didn't consider the deep blue colour of his riding before making a fatuous statement pre-voting.

As an aside - the word "coup" can be used however one wishes - it's all contextual and given the intent of the coalition, it was indeed a failed coup attempt.

mystereeoso said...

EOE,

As an aside, your prerogative to use the word as you WISH has not been disputed here. However that does not mean you are right.Quite the contrary.
coup in context

liberal supporter said...

it's all contextual and given the intent of the coalition, it was indeed a failed coup attempt.

Given the intent of Harper, we are now ruled by the Harper junta.

maryT said...

Re the word coup. That word and the coalition is now ingrained in a majority of canadians mind.
The word separtists and the Bloc are also ingrained in our minds as part of the attempted coup d'etat.
That picture of the three signing a pact will be front and center during the next election.
And this coalition trying to force Dion on us as PM, when they said he was not good enough to lead their party will also be remembered.
And also imbedded in our minds is the thought that this coup was hatched before the last election, just not finalized yet when PMSH pulled the plug on them, and forced it out into the open.
Let us hear all of that tape.
PMSH only needed 12 more seats to get his majority, and they are possible without Quebec. And, as long as they vote Bloc, liberals are about 75 seats short. And where will they get those, not in the west, and I doubt Ont will ever go total liberal again.

liberal supporter said...

that word and the coalition is now ingrained in a majority of canadians mind.
Just like Harper junta is becoming ingrained. It's great the "j" is pronounced like "H".

But we know "Harper junta" is just kidding, while "coup" and "coalition" is ingrained as being the outright lies of the current regime. It is prime evidence of the contempt Canadians are held in by the Harper regime as it expects us to be ignorant of how our own country's government works.

Yes, the desperation of the Harperites as they are finally driven from power will be long remembered. But once he is gone, the war against Canada that he has waged nonstop will be over.

Then you may see a rebirth of actual conservatism, once the smothering Reform-Republican takeover, the coup against the original Conservative party, has been turned back at last.

Harper and the Reforms took over the Conservative party in a coup. That's why the word is so effortlessly applied to everyone else.